I agree with that last statement about Veil's actions being triggered by the way the other creatures of Redwall were treating him...

But you know Brian Jacques... He feels that all "vermin" must be evil... for some reason... figures... he insults most of the Mustelidae family... —This unsigned comment was added by Ermine (talk • contribs) 03:37, 13 November 2006. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

What about Ashleg? He was allied with the baddies, but he himself wasn't particularly nasty. Rather pitiful, really. He also leaves for a simpler life, one of peace and such. Er, are pine martens in the same family as ferrets? —This unsigned comment was added by 76.189.238.75 (talk • contribs) 14:30, 8 August 2008. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Contents 1 Really, the only who trusted him 2 Abbess Vale? 3 Vote Now! 4 Well 5 Actually 6 Are we sure? 7 Word Tense Issue 8 Good or Evil? 9 Good Vs. Evil 10 Bella of Brockhall

Really, the only who trusted him Edit

was Bryony and togget. Did anybeast notice that Viel's name is also an anagram of 'Live?' He gave his life for Bryony. (Hmm, he wouldn't have unless he cared for her!!) Shieldmaiden ^{Tell Me Something I Don't Know!} 14:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Abbess Vale?Edit

Doesn't her name sound eerily simalar to his? Is this a coincidence, or is it significant? --—This unsigned comment was added by 67.182.157.63 (talk • contribs) 16:57, 9 January 2009. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Vote Now! Edit

I am holding a voting on my user page to see the opinion of the Redwall community on whether Veil is good or evil. Voting ends at the end of April. Thurrn the Ranger 04:46, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Well Edit

Didn't Bryony herself say that Veil probably wouldn't have protected her if he had known that Swartt was going to throw the spear? I mean, if she believed he was evil, than he probably was, considering she was the one most in favor of him being considered good. --The Hooded One Gaze into Darkness! 03:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually Edit

Bryony said she didn't know if Veil knew that Swartt was going to throw the spear or not. She NEVER said that Veil wouldn't have done it, she said she didn't know.

And furthermore, Bryony said that Veil *was* bad; all his life she was denying all of his badness, but after all that had happened, she was finally facing what she didn't want to see (even if it was a bit late). And let's face it, people, Veil *was* bad.

And also, Togget didn't really trust Veil either, not really. He seemed to put up with the ferret for Bryony's sake; you recall when they rescued Veil from the foxes he shouted at them, and it was Togget who landed the first blow. Veil shoved him, and he didn't attack Bryony until she started to pummel him. Just wanted to point that out.

And also, about what Jacques has said about vermin, I'd like to point out Blaggut, Ashleg, Romsca, Graylunk, the water rats from "Marlfox", the vermin from "Eulalia!", and so on. Those were all "good" characters. And there have been plenty of evil woodlanders: Druwp, Fenno, the grumpy bankvole from "Eulalia!", the Log-a-Log from "Doomwyte", Nimbalo's father, etc.

I recall reading somewhere that Jacques was questioned about that, but he only gave an ambigious answer. A guess of mine is this:

Jacques says he only has "goodies" and "baddies" in his books; maybe Blaggut and Co. were never "baddies" to begin with? Maybe they too are "goodies"? Though Romsca did steal and murder in her past... I don't know. Meh. —This unsigned comment was added by 24.20.108.31 (talk • contribs) 08:57, November 14. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Hi, this is all information that would belong in an essay, rather than a talk page. -- LordTBT ^Talk! 17:37, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

I did make an essay here.--Verminfate Nobeast outfights Razgath the Mercenary!

Are we sure? Edit

Are we sure that picture is of Veil? If you look at the older US Hardback version--that's where it's from--it has that picture, and on the back cover, is Sunflash and the bird. It sort of gives the impression that Swartt is looking at them through the foliage, unless Veil spotted them at one point in the story before the showdown on the mountain.

Clockworthy From Clockworth to Eternity 21:27, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I think you have a point, there - now that you remind me, I always got the impression that that picture was of Swartt and not Veil, given the context of the book art of Sunflash and Skarlath...maybe we could remove the photo, then? - d2r 22:29, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Yes. The title of the book is "Outcast of Redwall". Veil is the titular character and the outcast, thus the cover character being any other character fails to make sense. The book art does not necessarily have to match an event in the book. "Salamandastron", "Marlfox", and "Taggerung" come to mind. -- LordTBT ^Talk! 04:22, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Word Tense Issue Edit

Someone keeps reverting the last paragraph to present-tense format (i.e. "Veil goes to Location X and does Y" as opposed to "Veil went to Location X and did Y". I'm going to go out on a limb here and argue that this isn't in keeping with the style of the rest of the wiki as a whole, so I'm going to re-edit it back to the past tense, as with the rest of the wiki, and remove all other grammar problems and un-necessary flourishes. If the person who's doing the constant reversions believes I am in error on the matter, I ask them to make their case here so that LordTBT or someone else can moderate on the matter. - d2r 22:47, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

It is not in the style. Past tense for character articles is the style here, you are correct. -- LordTBT ^Talk! 21:11, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Good or Evil? Edit

Isn't there an argument about whether or not Veil was acually evil? I always considered him to be a gray character... does Mr. Jacques ever say anything about this subject?--Hyzenthlay of Redwall Watership Down is my Noonvale 01:28, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

I can't edit this page becuase of Lord TBT.The Woodland Warrior 21:02, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

There's been plenty of fan discussion, and that sort of thing is more the place for an Essay, as it is opinion. -- LordTBT ^Talk! 21:11, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

in one of the paragraphs, it says "Veil then went to seek out his father, Swartt.[[File:Veil_Sixclaw_picture_1.jpg|thumb] Unbeknownst to Veil, Bryony, along with her friend Togget, were following him." isn't there suppposed another one of these: ] at teh end of the picture link?--ladyamber88 ^{Plz leave a message after u click} 00:56, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Good Vs. Evil Edit

It's a matter of personal interpretation. It's like, (please do not get mad at me, this is only an example) the bible. It can be interpreted in a variety of ways. There's no definite answer to whether or not Veil was evil. --Martin II I scare myself... 22:43, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

It looks like Veil is quiet a contriverial charicter --Zoso159 23:24, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

I found this bit of info on Redwall.org in the Q&A section. Do you think we should put this in the article?

'Where did you get the idea for the Wraith in The Outcast of Redwall, and did you see Veil as a good guy in the end? The wraith was another invention (it suited my mood for that part of the story). As to Veil and his final motives, I deliberately left that for the reader to decide. I have had many opinions and the jury is still out. --Brian Jacques --Hyzenthlay of Redwall Watership Down is my Noonvale 23:41, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

I wish Lord TBT would unlock the editing for Veil's character page.The Woodland Warrior 17:48, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well, if he did then it would be open to spammers. Grey characters tend to get spammed more often.

ShieldmaidenI live by honor and die like a warrior 17:35, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I think that it's kind of like how Darth Vader was evil(at least in the first movies) until he had to chose between the one he loved and the one he worked for, though the choice was a bit easier for veil considering he hated his father. But in my opinion veil was still evil for the most part because while he saved Byrony from being killed he also did many things that were evil.

Sincerely, Lordsunflash May The Wind Be at Your Back, Matey

I think Abbess Merriam put it best, she said, "There was some good in Veil, even if it cost him his life to show it." Even though Veil saved Byrony the rest of his life was spent doing evil; therefore I think Veil was mostly bad, but not entirely.Sandingomm the Wildcat 22:25, July 11, 2011 (UTC)Sandingomm the Wildcat This is Mossflower!

Bella of Brockhall Edit

Bella of Brockhall is repeated in this article, the second time being when she banishes him. This should be changed. Burr Aye, Gurt Zurrs! 16:13, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Can somebody change this? Burr Aye, Gurt Zurrs! 22:45, April 2, 2012 (UTC)